The year was 1986, and two of the comics industry’s powerhouse creators — Frank Miller and Alan Moore — were busily deconstructing the dominant discourse around superheroes, poking at their flaws and suggesting a less sanitized, and more actively political way of thinking about them.
Alan Moore’s Watchmen and Frank Miller’s The Dark Knight Returns broke the rules of mainstream comic books, presenting complex takes on how modern society might actually respond if handsome gods fell from the sky, and vengeful vigilantes emerged from the shadows. They argued for a darker and more mature style of comics, with morally ambiguous heroes operating in a fallen world.
And then there’s Zack Snyder, who came along in the mid-2010s with the idea of taking scenes that he liked from The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen, and stringing them together without thinking much about what they actually meant.
As we can see in 2016’s high-flying failure Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, Snyder mostly likes the growling and the punching, in a doomed world where strength is everything. Snyder’s characters are obsessed with dominating every situation that they’re in, from Batman vowing to make Superman bleed, all the way down to Perry White telling Clark Kent to shut up and write about sports.
This week on the podcast, I’m joined by Stephen Robinson from the hilarious political website Wonkette and the podcast The Play Typer Guy to deconstruct this deconstruction, and figure out why audiences didn’t take to this cartoon character fight club between superheroes that we can hardly recognize.
The podcast is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, YouTube, Overcast, Audible and lots of other places. Come check it out!
Here’s Act 2:
And Act 3:
Next week:
We take on the 2000 mutant mystery tour
X-Men!
— Danny Horn
Superheroes Every Day 
I understand why this would work in the world of comics, but I think it would be hard for it to work in a mainstream movie, especially a superhero movie with a name brand characters. I know Batman. (See note) I know Bruce Wayne. I know Superman. I know Clark Kent. Why in the name of heaven would I want to watch my friends Bruce and Clark try to hurt each other? We should just – I don’t know have a coffee instead – and I could explain to each other their viewpoints and all would be good. I don’t want either of them hurt. (Note: Yes, I know they’re fictional characters, that I really don’t know them, they aren’t really my friends, and if they really did exist they wouldn’t know me & would be horrified that me a complete stranger knew their secret identities, but it doesn’t FEEL that way. I’ve watched them in enough different things- TV, movies, and cartoons – that I feel like the cores of the characters are my friends. And here’s where we hang out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mTpxoNOZa8 )
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It was nice hearing from Stephen Robinson. I’ve always enjoyed his comments.
I have generally found DC movies dark but this sounds absolutely depressing. I’m afraid I’m not a fan of DC’s vision of the modern superhero. I will watch one movie and avoid the sequels. I guess the Superman of old is too much of a Boy Scout to be considered appealing to cynical audiences. Nothing can be fun. No one can be kind or helpful. DC movies need to be serious and real. So Superman can’t really BE Superman. Batman has to demonstrate that he’s psychologically damaged by being hard, bitter and violent. This vision doesn’t interest me. For me, superhero movies are a blend of myth, sci-fi and fantasy. I watch them for their unreality. If I want to be reminded that the world is horrible, violent and ugly, I can turn on the news.
I really wish Mr. Gunn well. I hope he can bring DC into the light. I hope he at least can give Superman his character back.
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I very much appreciate this episode. In addition to being generally a poorly written film, as you catalog, pointing out the world-view this movie reflects and perpetuates has been a difficult thing for me to articulate over the years. You two absolutely nailed the emptiness of the movie’s ethos and why it never feels like Batman or Superman, or even Lex Luthor. It’s still shocking to me that WB put this movie out when they had so many other possibilities for what to do with these massively recognizable properties and with a built in audience. Thanks for an enjoyable ride through a movie that’s a complete slog.
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